Bonus Episode: Further Metagaming Discussion

Kevin talks about a situation that arose in their most recent Monster Hearts game that highlighted how his thoughts on metagaming may differ from the norm.

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8 Responses to “Bonus Episode: Further Metagaming Discussion”

  1. brian Says:

    I thought of this when i was listening to the last AP as well: for something like stealing car keys, you could just do a Hold Steady roll, just like how in AW you’d do an Act Under Fire roll. Did that not occur to the group?

  2. Kevin Weiser Says:

    It totally did not, and that’s a really good idea. Adding the condition “Terrified” might be a little weird in that situation, but I really like the idea of a minor tweak to Hold Steady to just gain a condition of the GM’s choice.

  3. brian Says:

    The kind of strange thing (to me) was that, if I remember right, in the episode you were saying things like “I want to do this, but the only way I can do that is with these moves,”
    and I kept thinking, “Wait, no… that’s now how you’re supposed to do it. You’re supposed to just say what your character does, and if it’s a move, then you do the move.” If I had been MCing it, I would have said “Kevin, just say what Omar does,” and if you’d said he was going to try to break into the car and hot wire it, or steal the keys from the woman’s bag, I would have asked you to Hold Steady to see if you kept your cool while doing it. Unless, of course, it seems clear (in the case of something like hotwiring) that Omar wouldn’t even be able to do it… in that case, I think it’s reasonable to just say no.

    As to the “Terrified” condition… well… you never HAVE to get that, from that move. It’s a choice. If Terrified makes no sense, you can just choose to keep your cool. But I’m also not sure it DOESN’T make sense. I remember being freaked out all day when I was a teenager over stuff like “Oh shit, is my physics teacher going to call my parents and tell them I didn’t do this big assignment.” So I think it definitely makes sense to be “terrified” after doing something as huge as stealing your case worker’s car keys.

  4. brian Says:

    Also, unrelated, but since this is the most recent episode relevant to Monsterhearts… I think someone (Dan?) maybe screwed up the “carry +1 forward” rules during the most recent episode. I remember that someone (I think it was the ghoul, from the Satiety move?) was carrying 1 forward… if the rules for that are like in AW (and I think they are) that means you just get +1 to your very next roll, regardless what it is… and I THINK the player thought he could save it and use it whenever, and did so.
    Not a huge thing, but it was something I noticed when listening.

  5. brian Says:

    oh, back on the stealing keys and holding steady thing again… a lot of this is down to the MC’s style and taste (and I recognize that in the moment, under the pressure of feeling like you need to come up with the best way to handle things NOW MCing/GMing is a lot harder) but another thing that, in my opinion, is a totally good option would be

    PC: I want to steal her car keys from her purse and use her car.
    MC: Okay. You do that. (makes a note to have the police show up when she’s making a hard move)

    i think sometimes the obvious in-world consequences of an action can be enough for their own price… you don’t ALWAYS have to make a move in order to make something happen.

  6. Allegra Says:

    Brian –

    I think you hit the nail on the head regarding the “Terrified” condition. Maybe I was just a neurotic teenager, but that makes total sense to me.

    Regarding “try this, then MC tells you if you should roll or not.” I’ve got a lot to learn and am the least experienced MC in the group, so that’s a lot of it. I hope that I will grow more confident as I get more experience (both with MCing and with simply being part of the podcast). Feedback like this is really helpful. There have been a few times I felt like I should be directing things more and instead let the players take the lead. Gotta work up that confidence. Because of our format and short sessions, I do appreciate the help from my fellow ‘cast members so we can keep things moving forward. I mentioned this elsehwere, but playing just to play is a lot different than playing for a recorded show. If I run any future games, I plan on doing more pre-recording runs so I feel more comfortable with the system, rules, and tone of the game.

    I’m also definitely going to remember the advice regarding jotting down ideas for hard moves to use later. It seems so obvious now, but isn’t that the way?

  7. brian Says:

    Well… I do essentially 100% of the GMing with my friends, simply because I’m the only one who’s into RPGs enough to buy, learn, and run them. If I want to play RPGs, I have to run (or in the case of GMless ones, facilitate and teach) them or they don’t happen.

    But even though I’ve been running games off and on for like 15 years, I definitely always feel like I’m not that great at it, and worry about making sure I get things “right,” and I feel that pressure just with 2 or 3 of my friends looking at me, so I can only imagine what it’s like when you’re recording it for public consumption as well!

    But I think you’ve been doing great!
    Sometimes when I post comments here, I worry that I’m going to sound like a nit-picky rules-lawyer-y jerk. I hope that’s not the case. I just like talking about games, I don’t get to do it as often as I’d like in real life, and due to years of teaching RPGs and board games (and just part of my basic nature, I think) I pay a lot of attention to little details, leading me to bring up things like the (possibly) mistaken “+1 forward” rule. but aside from reading a lot of them, I’m not an expert on the AW-based games. I’ve only run original AW (though I own Monsterhearts, Monster of the Week, Dungeon World, and tremulous) , and that only for about a half-dozen sessions.

    but i’ll shut my trap about this now, except to say that i’m really looking forward to the conclusion of the AP and… i assume a follow-up interview with Joe?

    oh and ps, i’ll again say that i think you guys should consider playing Joe’s earlier game, Perfect, for the show.

  8. Allegra Says:

    I definitely appreciate constructive criticism, and comments in general 😀

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