The Walking Eye Episode 11: Secrets
Kevin, Dan, and CJ discuss how secrets can be used in a game. We discuss the different kinds of secrets: Short Term, Long Term, Open, and Closed, as well as how each can be a boon or a bane to your game.
Relevant Links
- Guy Fawkes
- Monte Cook’s Arcana Evolved (referred to as “The AE Game” several times in this episode)
- D6 Star Wars
- Cold City
- Diplomacy
- The Mountain Witch
- Vincent Baker’s example of a player-generated closed secret in The Mountain Witch
- Trapcast Forum Discussion about collaborative setting creation
- Trapcast thread about secrets
- The WAAAGH!
- Dogs in the Vineyard
- Mutants and Masterminds
Crunchy Bits!
- Discussion 11: Secrets 35 Minutes
- Intro and Outro music provided by Oh Possum.
The problem with this secret conversation, and the broader internet one is folks don’t seem to be able to distinguish between a fictional secret, which is not a secret at all, and a player secret. To be clear, there are secrets from players, and fictional secrets.
The problem with the first, the secret between players, becomes a problem when we don’t have a shared agreement on who has responsibility over content introduction, and that secrets between players can screw with the Shared Imagined Space.
So the player keeping a secret to themselves is likely fighting against the social contract of who has content authority by having their “secret imaginations.”
I could go on, but my break is over. Please keep doing the non-actual play shows, I’ve been listening to all of them.
Clyde,
I think we touched on it and kinda meandered around that topic, but no, we didn’t come right out and say it as succinctly as you just did. I agree, though; people get confused between the two and think the fictional secret should be also a secret between players. We also touched on one of the main reasons for doing this: the desire to have content authority.
One thing that is challenging us is trying to decide how much time to spend on hippy gaming lingo. I understood your post perfectly, but there’s a *lot* of people who don’t know what “social contract” “content authority” or “shared imagined space” is. Do we build up that knowledge from the ground up every episode? Just assume people know what it is? Point them towards Theory from the Closet? Speaking of, do more solo casts, hippie! Your explanations of game theory are excellent. In fact, why don’t *you* cover all this shit in a solo cast? Yeah, that’s the ticket! Get to it, Clyde!
We’ll try to get more discussion episodes out. Our time is limited and there’s a constant tension between doing more AP for our own sake (we want to broaden our horizons) and doing more “traditional” podcast content. As it stands we pretty much only do discussion when one of us can’t make it to the AP session, and that’s a less than ideal arrangement. I’ll try to get something worked out.
Ciao,
Kevin
Hey Kevin,
You’re asking me? Well — You should send everyone my way, that would be best. Seriously though, you don’t have to delve into the depths of theory, but you can define things pretty easy.
Here’s a thread where Bill White schools me on how to do just that:
http://www.story-games.com/forums/comments.php?DiscussionID=2192&page=1#Item_11
I may pick up that gauntlet….
That O Yanma was my father was also my half-demon samurai’s dark fear in one of my favorite TMW games. Of course it turned out he was. The exchange between us remains one of my favorite in-game moments of all time.
“Father… I had hoped beyond hope that when we met, I would not know you.”
“And now that we have met, my son; what is it you would have of me?”
“All my life, I have suffered under the yoke of my cursed blood. This suffering I lay at your feet. The villagers have offered me money for your head. Enough money to cross the wide waters and escape the curse of my heritage. I will collect it from you, or from them. The choice is yours.”
“My son, do you truly believe that there is any ocean wide enough to separate you from me?”
“…..Then I truly have no choice.”
We dueled then. He struck me once. I struck him a matching blow. And then he slew me where I stood.
As I slid off his blade, I whispered “At least now… I will be free.”
And that was just my story- every single player in that game had a truly badass narrative.
Oh, crap… did I just commit the prime geek fail and tell a character story? My bad.
Also- CLYDE! Just do more casts, period. Everybody used to be so reliable… Durham 3 went down. Then Sons of Kryos… Clyde, if you fall off the map, I may just have to give up listening to podcasts alltogether.
Hey Dave,
I’m not going anywhere. I reached the end of my roadmap with GNS and need to generate new idea… plus I’ve just been being lazy.
[...] The Walking Eye Episode 11: Secrets [...]
This was my first WE episode and I found it very interesting and helpful. The identification of the problem of inside vs. outside game secrets was spot on. Players having problems keeping outside game info on the outside is something I’m dealing with in my current game. I appreciate your coverage of the topic and the ideas it generated for me.
I’ll be back.
Go forth and game.
tomg
[...] being naked in public bathrooms? God there is a lot of poop talk. . . Main Topic: Secrets in gaming Don’t listen to the Walking Eye Mist + Fire = Smoke Steal away Jordan BASH! Unhallowed [...]